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Thread: Volkswagen's emissions 'cheat' software scandal

  1. #1
    Man with broom TheIceMan's Avatar
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    Volkswagen's emissions 'cheat' software scandal

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...11R0TU20150921

    UPDATE 7-Volkswagen shares plunge on emissions scandal; U.S. widens probe



    * VW shares fall nearly 20 pct; market cap down 14 bln euros

    * U.S. EPA says to widen probe to other carmakers

    * U.S. Justice Department starts criminal probe -Bloomberg

    * VW initially denied trying to game inspections

    * Germany also to investigate carmakers' emissions data (Adds EPA comment on working with DOJ, background about Jetta model that benefited from subsidies.)

    By Andreas Cremer and Valerie Volcovici

    BERLIN/WASHINGTON, Sept 21 (Reuters) - Volkswagen shares plunged by nearly 20 percent on Monday after the German carmaker admitted it had rigged emissions tests of diesel-powered vehicles in the United States, and U.S. authorities said they would widen the probe to other automakers.

    German officials, alarmed at the potential damage the scandal could inflict on its car industry, urged Volkswagen to fully clear up the matter and said it would investigate whether emissions data had also been falsified in Europe.

    "You will understand that we are worried that the justifiably excellent reputation of the German car industry and in particular that of Volkswagen suffers," German Economy Minister Sigmar Gabriel said.

    The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) said on Friday that Volkswagen, the world's biggest carmaker by sales, used software that deceived regulators measuring toxic emissions and could face penalties of up to $18 billion.

    The scandal reverberated on Monday with the White House saying it was "quite concerned" about the reports of VW's conduct. The U.S. Department of Justice started a criminal probe of the effort to game the emissions tests, according to press reports.

    The EPA and California officials said they would test diesel vehicles from other manufacturers for similar violations. In addition to Volkswagen, automakers including General Motors Co and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles sell diesel cars and SUVs in the United States.

    EPA spokeswoman Liz Purchia said the agency would be "working closely" with the Department of Justice on the probe but she would not comment about the possibility of a criminal probe.

    The alleged attempt to fool the emissions tests also attracted congressional notice, with a House of Representatives panel planning a hearing in the coming weeks.

    Shares of VW, whose vehicles range from budget Seats and Skodas to luxury Bentleys and Lamborghinis, fell 18.6 percent to close at 132.20 euros, wiping some 14 billion euros ($15.6 billion) off its market cap.

    Volkswagen Chief Executive Martin Winterkorn has promised to support testing by German authorities of the company's diesel cars, Germany's Transport Ministry said on Monday.

    Winterkorn said on Sunday he was "deeply sorry" for the breach of U.S. rules and ordered an investigation.

    "This disaster is beyond all expectations," said Ferdinand Dudenhoeffer, head of the Center of Automotive Research at the University of Duisburg-Essen.

    Analysts said it was unclear what the ultimate cost could be for VW, which reported 2014 net income of 10.84 billion euros ($12.15 billion), according to Thomson Reuters data.

    German rivals Daimler and BMW said the accusations made by U.S. authorities against VW did not apply to them.

    The scandal comes just as VW was hoping to move on from a damaging leadership battle, with a supervisory board meeting on Friday due to discuss a new company structure and management line-up.

    Winterkorn, who saw off a challenge to his authority with the ousting of long-time chairman Ferdinand Piech, ran the VW brand between 2007 and 2015, including the six-year period when some of its models were found to have violated U.S. clean air rules.

    "DEFEAT DEVICE"

    Evidence of increased toxic emissions at VW first emerged in 2014, prompting the California Air Resources Board to start investigating VW, a letter from the board to VW dated Sept. 18 showed.

    Volkswagen initially denied it was trying to game the inspections, attributing the higher emissions readings to "various technical issues and unexpected in-use conditions," the EPA said on Friday.

    The stonewalling continued until the agency threatened to withhold certification for the carmaker's 2016 models, the EPA said.

    "Only then did VW admit it had designed and installed a defeat device" that purposely lowered emissions while a vehicle was being inspected, the agency said. During regular driving, emissions would return to as much as 40 times the level of pollutants allowed under clean air rules.

    Any decision on emissions control mechanisms would have been taken at the group's Wolfsburg headquarters and not by regional divisions, a source close to Volkswagen said.

    Germany's Robert Bosch supplies diesel emissions control devices to VW, an industry source said. Asked whether Bosch had supplied the electronic module central to the EPA test findings, a company spokesman said: "We supply components for exhaust after-treatment to several manufacturers. The integration is the responsibility of the manufacturer."

    The way carmakers test vehicles has been coming under growing scrutiny from regulators worldwide amid complaints from environmental groups that they use loopholes in the rules to exaggerate fuel-saving and emissions results.

    In 2013, an Indian government-named panel accused GM of flouting testing regulations by fitting engines with low emissions in vehicles sent for inspection. And in 2014, Hyundai Motor Co and affiliate Kia Motors Corp paid $350 million in penalties to the United States for overstating fuel economy ratings.

    The European Commission said it was in contact with VW and U.S. regulators, but that it was too early to say whether VW vehicles in Europe were also affected.

    VW overtook Japan's Toyota in the first half of this year to become the world's biggest carmaker by sales, but is facing a sharp slowdown in its most profitable market, China.

    The U.S. scandal adds to the challenge it faces in reviving its North American business, which has long lagged its performance elsewhere.

    "HUGE LOSS OF TRUST"

    Ingo Speich, a fund manager at Union Investment, which owns about 0.4 percent of VW shares, said he was braced for the crisis to spread for the carmaker.

    "The market is anticipating more than just the U.S. issue. We have to admit that just looking at the facts there is a huge loss of trust in management," he said.

    Bernd Osterloh, the head of VW's works council and a supervisory board member, called for those responsible to be held accountable.

    Exane BNP analysts said VW's problems could have wider implications for diesel vehicles, which have long struggled to gain a foothold in the U.S. market.

    Still, one of VW's rule-breaking models, the revamped Jetta TDI, proved very po****r when it went on sale in 2009, in part because of Obama administration-approved subsidies designed to spur the sale of "clean diesel" technology.

    At least $78 million was earmarked for federal income tax credit for the first run of diesel Jetta buyers in 2009 and 2010. At one point, dealers reported a wait of more than a month for some buyers in California.

    VW has already told its U.S. dealers to stop selling the diesel models criticised by U.S. regulators, while law firm Keller Rohrback LLP has filed a nationwide class action complaint against VW's U.S. division, saying it deliberately deceived consumers and regulators in its emissions testing.

    VW's Canadian unit also said it has stopped selling 2015 diesel models.

    Ratings agency Fitch said the deepening crisis could put pressure on the company's credit ratings. ($1 = 0.8924 euros) (Additional reporting by Gernot Heller and Markus Wacket in Berlin and Tim Gardner, Patrick Rucker and Emily Stephenson in Washington; Ilona Wissenbach in Stuttgart; Philip Blenkinsop and Barbara Lewis in Brussels; Writing by Christian Plumb; Editing by Mark Potter, Gareth Jones, Grant McCool and Leslie Adler)
    beleafer

  2. #2
    visurat Novac's Avatar
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    eu nu inteleg cum stiau (decideau ) masinile momentul in care sa intre in modul nepoluant (putere mica) si cand full noxe? ca trebuie sa mearga din 3 in 3 ani la verificarea tehnica/ITP


    adica pare putin SF povestea.

  3. #3
    Man with broom TheIceMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novac View Post
    eu nu inteleg cum stiau (decideau ) masinile momentul in care sa intre in modul nepoluant (putere mica) si cand full noxe? ca trebuie sa mearga din 3 in 3 ani la verificarea tehnica/ITP


    adica pare putin SF povestea.
    pai in multe state in USA si provincii in Canada NU se face inspectia aia de care vorbesti tu DELOC.

    EPA testeasa masinile ca sa le dea acreditatre, omologarea de tip ca masina aia e ok sa se vanda. ATAT. Omologare care se face o dat p[e an, ma gandesc cu fiecare model nou.

    Din cate inteleg eu, softul din masina detecta ca masina este conectata in sistem test la aparate de noxe si dadea rezultatele "dorite" ca apoi in mers normal sa fie dezafectat modulul. Probabil avand modulul "on" tot timpul, pierde putere motorul, sau cine stie ce alte incoveniente, altfel era normal ca modul respectiv sa fie "on" tot timpul.

    Sa vedem ce mia zic astia in zilele ce ormeaza.

    Anyway, VW are de reparat 482,000 de masini vandute in ultimii 6 ani, socotind ca anual se vand peste 8,000,000 de masini noi in USA, e cam nesemnificativ ca volum total pe piata.
    Cota de piata a VW in USA e in continua scadere, probabil de undeva la 7% acum cativa ani spre 3 chiar 2% acum, inainte de scandal. Cu toate ca VW e number one in za world, in USA sunt codasi la vanzari. Pentru ca nu vand ceea ce vor americanii, small SUVs, crossovers si pick-up trucks. Asa le trebuie.

    Sa vedem daca nu cumva si alte companii au facut smecherii similare
    beleafer

  4. #4
    iwanttobelieve Freek's Avatar
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    Meh, shit happens. Au incercat si ei o smecherie le-a mers cat le-a mers, "We totally screwed up", scoatem banu', mergem mai departe...

    Pe mine ca utilizator m-au pacalit de 0.3 l/100 A si ca cica s-ar fuche motoru mai repede, sa zicem.

  5. #5
    visurat Novac's Avatar
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    Adica nu te intreaba nimeni "de sanatate" in cazul in care-ti faci upgrade la motor cu 40 hpw? asta ca sa nu vb aici de 150-200 de calutzi

    cool

  6. #6
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    Este anuntat ca probabil cel mai mare scandal din istoria industriei automobile. Grupul VW a pierdut 35% in bursa in doua zile ...
    Sportul darama barierele rasismului !!!
    Cel care cade dar se ridica este mai puternic decat cel care nu a cazut niciodata.

  7. #7
    iwanttobelieve Freek's Avatar
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    Sa cumpere Dacia si isi revin ei peste noapte.

    edit: wtf, acum citesc ca ar fi vorba de 11 mil. de masini worldwide. WOW! credeam ca au ramas la 400k si ceva .
    Last edited by Freek; 23rd September 2015 at 00:18.

  8. #8
    visurat Novac's Avatar
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    35# means a lot of cash.

    Scade increderea consumatorului, scade valoarea de piata a SH-ului deci si utilizatorul de A6 (vezi Basica) este mai sarac cu 35% (sau pe acolo), nasol.

    Apropo de Basica, vezi ca a inceput sa-si bage organele in distrusul de Miaitza ... nu ca n-ar merita individul dar nu-i voie la "moderatori" ... se aude Dl delaparis?

  9. #9
    Man with broom TheIceMan's Avatar
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    Ok, au pacalit standardele americane, in special din California, dar sincer oare cati cumparatori au cumparat VW diesel pentru ca emit noxe scazute, sau pentru alte motive?
    Sincer, eu niciodata cand ma uit la specs la o noua masina nu ma uit la rubrica noxe, cred ca majoritatea site-urilor nici nu prezinta asta.
    beleafer

  10. #10
    Man with broom TheIceMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novac View Post
    Scade increderea consumatorului, scade valoarea de piata a SH-ului
    Cool, imi cumpar doo in loc de una
    beleafer

  11. #11
    visurat Novac's Avatar
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    Pai deja asteapta pe aici samsarii sa scada preturile la Q7pteuri, 2-3 saptamani de panica si dizelarii vor da fiarele pe maruntis. Vine criza audiurilor in Romania, unde, SE STIE, nu esti mafiot (om de afaceri ) daca nu ai o nemtoasa de lux.

  12. #12
    iwanttobelieve Freek's Avatar
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    De cand asteptam sa-mi iau un tedei sh la un pret rezonabil. Da nu orice tedei, ci din ala cu perdea de fum ca sa moara dujmanii cand ii dau talpa cand se face verde la semafor.

    @Ice
    Sa fim serios, prea putini aia care isi cumpara masini in functie de cat de scazute sunt noxele sau nu. Bine ca nu au avut probleme ca Toyota cu pedala de acceleratie...

  13. #13
    Man with broom TheIceMan's Avatar
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    Audi in ziua de azi este ceea ce era BMW in anii 1990, dupa revolutie. Nu ca nu ar fi masini bune, dar dpdv social in Ro.
    beleafer

  14. #14
    iwanttobelieve Freek's Avatar
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    Ei as, eu doar bmw-uri vad.

  15. #15
    visurat Novac's Avatar
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    In Romania si China este asa


    De urmarit evolutia pietei de acolo pentru ca la noi 95% dintre masini sunt rulate ... din Jermania fireste. Adica daca se prabusesc in vanzari acolo este nasol nasol. Poa' sa-i coste contravaloarea unui vrand mai second d'al lor

    @freek, de 2 ani e din nou pe trend bemveul dar doar aici in regat. la ardeal tot tedeiul e fruncea

  16. #16
    iwanttobelieve Freek's Avatar
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    Nu cunosc pe acolo deci te cred pe cuvant.
    Citeam pe softpedia mai demult cum isi ia lumea diseluri si apoi se rahatizeaza pe ea sa scoata dpf-ul ca se infunda.

  17. #17
    Man with broom TheIceMan's Avatar
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    Si aici. A4, A5, si Q5 sunt in toate parcarile, urmate de Q7. Totusi parca ceva mai multe X5 decat Q7.
    Mai prin centru te mai lovesti de cate un A7 Benz cred ca vinde cel mai putin dintre big3
    beleafer

  18. #18
    visurat Novac's Avatar
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    Unui brand ziceam mai sus (Skoda sau Seat)

    Dintr-un articol de acum 5 ani: << Intrebat care este motivul pentru care Alfa Romeo Giulietta nu reuseste emisii precum cele ale lui Audi A3 1.6 TDI (99 grame CO2/km), Wester a raspuns numind aceste cifre "miraculoase, magice si extraterestre". "Trebuie sa fim ceva mai seriosi in legatura cu aceste cifre pe termen lung"
    >>

    http://www.automarket.ro/stiri/alfa-...-a3-30086.html

  19. #19
    Man with broom TheIceMan's Avatar
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    beleafer

  20. #20
    visurat Novac's Avatar
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    La voi in tot NA sunt cu toatele 500.000 de dizaluri astea ingrate. In EU sunt 10 mil

  21. #21
    iwanttobelieve Freek's Avatar
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    Mai bine astia de la Alfa ar lucra perceptia publicului despre fiabilitatea Afla in lco sa muste de tzur VAG. Ce vanzari are A3 si ce vanzari are Giulietta? fix la emisii s-au uitat oamenii cand au avut de ales, sigur de tot

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