View Poll Results: Care este sistemul de judecare mai eficient?

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  • 6.0 system

    5 41.67%
  • CoP

    7 58.33%
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Thread: CoP Vs 6.0 system

  1. #1
    Addicted 2Books Iulya's Avatar
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    CoP Vs 6.0 system

    Care sistem vi se pare mai eficient si mai putin subiectiv:

    --------------------------------------------------------
    The New Judging System is already better than the 6.0
    Here are a few reasons why:
    1) The New System focuses on the skaters not the judges.
    2) Everyone will know the value of all technical elements. The values will not change
    from judge to judge as with the 6.0. The values are set.
    3) The judge evaluates the qualities of the performance rather than placing the skater.
    The points resulting from their evaluation are calculated to produce a result.
    4) A well-balanced program provides an even playing field for the athletes. Strategy of
    how and when the skater displays their skills now becomes an important and strategic
    aspect of the sport.
    5) Starting order does not impact a skater’s score. In the 6.0 system starting early in the
    competition often kept a high level skaters scores lower than had they performed later
    in the competition.
    6) A skater(s) can win from a much lower position on their own ability. They no longer
    have to count on another skater’s mistakes to climb in the standings.
    7) A skater(s) scores are directly relevant to their performance. Whether the field of
    skaters is strong or weak an individual skater’s score will reflect what they performed
    and not be affected by the other athletes.
    8) The trimmed mean method, where the high and low points are ignored and the
    average of the remaining points is calculated, prevents anomalous scores from
    affecting the result.
    9) Irrelevant of a skater’s placement the points will help the skater and coach assess
    whether there was improvement and the areas that need to be addressed.
    10) As a result of the points system the evaluation of judges can be more accurate as it
    does not relate to placement but rather adherence to the written criteria.
    2
    11) Points scored by the skaters can be used by coaches and Federations to administer the
    athlete’s career.
    12) Judges no longer have to remember and try to compare all aspects of every skater.
    Their energy and focus can remain on the individual evaluation of each aspect of each
    skater.
    13) The statistics created by this system will help in career evaluation, fan interest, and
    media coverage.
    14) Fans and parents of skaters can followed how the final result was determined.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The 6.0 System


    The basic principle of the 6.0 system in the United States is a “majority” system, which is unique in sports. Each event is judged by an odd number of judges. The winner of the competition is the skater placed highest by a majority of these judges. The marks of all the judges are used in calculating the results.

    The Scoring Scale

    Each judge will award marks to each skater or couple, according to the requirements for that discipline.

    For all singles and pairs events, as well as for the free dance, the judges award two marks. The first mark is for the technical merit of or, in the short program, the required elements. The second mark is for the presentation of the program or dance.

    The required elements or technical merit mark expresses a judge's evaluation of the quality of the elements skated. For the short program, the mark reflects the quality of the required elements, and for the free skate it reflects the difficulty, variety, cleanness and speed of the elements chosen.

    The presentation mark reflects a judge's assessment of the program as a whole: of its composition, originality, and use of ice, and of the skater's carriage, style, and expression of the music chosen.

    [For the compulsory dances and the original dance, judges' marks reward essentially the same two aspects of technique and presentation. Compulsory dances receive marks first for technique (accuracy and placement of steps, unison) and second, for timing (of the steps to the music) and expression (of the character of the music). The original dance includes composition of the dance as a feature to be evaluated in the first or technical mark.]

    Each judge will award marks ranging from 0.0 to 6.0, based upon the following scale:

    0 — not skated
    1 — very poor
    2 — poor
    3 — mediocre
    4 — good
    5 — very good
    6 — perfect & faultless

    Assigning ordinals to each skater

    What exactly is an “ordinal”? Ordinals in skating are the rankings or placements that each judge assigns to each skater by means of the total of the two marks awarded. For instance, let's look at Skater A below who received a 5.9 (as a technical mark) and a 5.9 (as a presentation mark) from Judge No. 1. Add these marks together to give Skater A a total score of 11.8. Now do this for each skater in the event, to give each a “total score.” The next step is to look at all the total scores given by a particular judge (look down the column under that judge's number) and “rank” them from the highest total score to the lowest total score. You have just assigned ordinals, or placements, for a particular judge! (*Remember, if two skaters receive the same total score from the same judge, the tie is broken by the higher required elements mark in the short program and by the higher presentation mark in free skating and free dance. If both sets of marks are identical, the skaters are tied.)

    Determining a Skater's Placement

    Now that we have all the ordinals assigned for the three skaters above, who would win this event? Who would receive second place? Remember that the majority rules! Look at Skater A. In this case, the skater received a first-place ordinal from five of the seven judges. This skater is awarded first place by a majority of the judges, and thus places first.

    Now let's look at Skater B. This skater received two first-place ordinals and four second-place ordinals which, when combined, result in a majority of six second-place ordinals from the seven judges and a second place for the skater. Since first place has already been awarded, the two first-place ordinals drop to second-place ordinals, and so on through the field of skaters, dropping each already-awarded ordinal to the next below it in order to establish a majority for each subsequent place.

    Our last skater, Skater C, received only two second-place ordinals but also received five third-place ordinals. As explained above, this skater would now have a majority of seven third-place ordinals. Remember that when there are seven judges, at least four ordinals are required to establish a majority.

    Final Placement

    After each part of an event - the short program and the free skate for singles and pairs; the compulsory dances, original dance, and free dance for ice dancing—the placement a skater or couple has earned in each part is multiplied by a factor based on the percentage of the whole represented by that part of the event. For instance, in singles, the short program is worth 33.3 percent and the free skating is worth 66.7 percent. The free skate is worth approximately twice as much as the short program, so the multiplying factor for the short program would be 0.5, and for the free skating 1.0. After multiplying the placement of each skater by the factor for each event, the skater with the lowest total is the winner. If two skaters are tied at this point, the winner is the skater or couple who places higher in the free skate or free dance.

    http://www.usfigureskating.org/New_Judging.asp?id=314
    [B][I][CENTER]Zoltan Kelemen/Nathalie Pechalat & Fabian Bourzat/Alena Leonova/ Anna Cappelini & Luca Lanotte/Florent Amodio/Aliona Savchebko & Robin Szolkowy/Alexander Majorov/[/CENTER][/I][/B]




    [CENTER] Anybody can root for a winning side. It takes character to stick with the underdogs![/CENTER]

  2. #2
    c'est la vie whisper's Avatar
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    Nu ma prea pricep eu la chestiile astea..dar imi placea mai mult sistemul cu 6.0 decat cel de acum..desi acesta ar parea mai putin subiectiv.
    "We believe Hanyu could win the gold because Daisuke Takahashi, the ace in Japan’s men’s figure skating, paved the way to the world for the other Japanese figure skaters."
    The Japan News, February 2014

  3. #3
    Moderator irinaidu's Avatar
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    am citit atatea pro si contra atat pt vechiul cat si pt noul sistem. clar ca cel vechi are multe defecte. dar e clar ca si cel nou lasa f mult de dorit. eu zic ca cop e un pic in impas si ca va trebui facut ceva pt ca multa lume se plange de el.
    dar ma opresc aici cu aprecierile pt ca nu ma pricep ca sa intru in detalii.
    "Nobody objects to a woman being a good writer or sculptor or geneticist if at the same time she manages to be a good wife, good mother, good looking, good tempered, well groomed and unaggressive."

  4. #4
    DOCTOR Geografu's Avatar
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    Mult mai bun era sistemul cu 6,0.
    Asta mi se pare sec,rece si nu releva exact valorea sportivilor !
    Zbor pana la stele.

  5. #5
    sport legend ricochet4's Avatar
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    Eu zic ca noul CoP e mult mai bun si ar fi aproape perfect daca nu ar mai exista arbitrul care striga elementele si cei 12 catelusi dau doar GOE. Ar trebui toti 12 sa dea elementul. De ex. la japoneza care a iesit pe 4 la mondiale anul asta, arbitrul cu elementele i-a dat doar dublu axel si astfel a pierdut enorm. Daca din cei 12, 6 i-ar fi dat triplu si 6 dublu (era la limita), ar fi castigat o medalie. Practic, pe partea de tehnic, un singur om taie si spanzura.

  6. #6
    Moderator mikeyy's Avatar
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    E mai bine ca 1-ul sa numeasca saritura si restul sa puncteze..daca ar trebui ca fiecare arbitru sa zica ce saritura ar fi..ar iesi circ..unul care zice ca e dublu,altul ca e triplu si nu ar ajunge la un numitor comun.
    www.fangymnastics.com

  7. #7
    junior bijoufan's Avatar
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    poate e vorba de subiectivitate si tanjesc dupa vremurile in care patina yagudin, si era sistemul 6.0, si de aceea imi placea mai mult...si cand vedeam ca ii dau nota 6 incepeam sa plang...of sweet memories, oricum, imi placea mai mult sistemul ala si era si mai usor de inteles pentru public, desi avea si el defectele lui
    [B]I want to be an European, Worlds and Olympic champion![/B]
    [I]Brian Joubert[/I]

  8. #8
    sport legend ricochet4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyy View Post
    E mai bine ca 1-ul sa numeasca saritura si restul sa puncteze..daca ar trebui ca fiecare arbitru sa zica ce saritura ar fi..ar iesi circ..unul care zice ca e dublu,altul ca e triplu si nu ar ajunge la un numitor comun.
    E mai usor sa corupi un arbitru decat 12. Plus ca arbitrul in cauza poate fi obosit, iar nici ceilalti 12 nu sint adunati de pe strada. Sint tot arbitri si daca sint in dubiu, atunci chiar ca saritura a fost la limita.

  9. #9
    sport legend ricochet4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bijoufan View Post
    poate e vorba de subiectivitate si tanjesc dupa vremurile in care patina yagudin, si era sistemul 6.0, si de aceea imi placea mai mult...si cand vedeam ca ii dau nota 6 incepeam sa plang...of sweet memories, oricum, imi placea mai mult sistemul ala si era si mai usor de inteles pentru public, desi avea si el defectele lui
    Mai tii minte Dean si Torvill ? 6.0 pe linie.

  10. #10
    Moderator irinaidu's Avatar
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    avand in vedere ce tare m-a secat the referee anul asta la goteborg si eu sunt de parere ca un singur om care decide nu e bine. asa se ajunge ca dupa ce s-a patinat un program da 100 de ori vine un idiot si zice ca muzica e neregulamentara. si ce e fain e ca daca vroiai sa faci plangere de fapt tot idiotului i te plangeai si guess what - el zicea ca tot el are dreptate.
    tot asa am vz ca anul asta astia la worlds i-au considerat cvadrupla lui johnny o tripla si sa nu mai continui ca ajung la sariturile cuiva si ma enervez iar
    oricum overall cred ca e mai bine cu cop dar ar trebui regandite multe lucruri.

    dar eu am o dilema in sinea mea. pe de o parte iubesc patianjul pt ca e mai mult decat sport - e arta. pe de alta parte imi doresc si partea de sport adica cvadruple dar pe masura ce tehnicul avanseaza patinatorii sufera tot mai multe accidentari. nu mai e posibil acum sa castige cineva cate 10 campionate la rand.
    asa ca pe de o parte consider ca cvadrupla ar trebui notata extra pt ca e clar ca nu oricine o poate face si sa ma lase jeff buttle cu explicatiile . si cand ma gandesc la nivelul sariturilor in 2002 si vad ce e acum imi vine sa plang. dar daca o sa se dea extra points pt cvadrupla nu va mai fi mult pana sa se accidenteze multi incercand o cvintupla sau mai stiu eu ce alte bazaconii
    pe de alta parte piruetele si liniile de pasi sunt mult mai complicate acum. dar ciudat asta nu le face neaparat mai frumoase. celebra linie de pasi a lui yags cred ca ar fi de level 1-2. dar era asa de frumoasa.

    ma gandesc si ma tot gandesc si nu ma pot hotara cum e mai bine.
    "Nobody objects to a woman being a good writer or sculptor or geneticist if at the same time she manages to be a good wife, good mother, good looking, good tempered, well groomed and unaggressive."

  11. #11
    sport legend ricochet4's Avatar
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    Tara Lipinski a trebuit sa se retraga din patinajul de inalt nivel la o varsta prematura dupa ce s-a accidentat la o combinatie triplu loop-triplu loop. Iar pasii lui Yagudin chiar ca erau fantastici. Intr-o vreme Joubert a incercat sa-l copieze, chiar a luat lectii de la el, dar tot nu era ca originalul. Mie mi-ar place sa fie multe elemente si complicate, dar sa fie si gratie si arta. Nu-mi plac patinatorii care dau din maini pe program sa treaca timpul. Si nici cum era Elena Sokolova, care desi era o scumpa si o dulce, traversa patinoarul de la un capat la celalalt in glisare doar pentru a face o saritura, pe care o si rata.

  12. #12
    Moderator mikeyy's Avatar
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    Cam toti rusii au "boala" asta de a traversa patinoarul doar pentru a sari, fara elemente de legatura
    www.fangymnastics.com

  13. #13
    c'est la vie whisper's Avatar
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    Nu stiam unde sa pun asta si am ales topicul asta

    New scale of values, GOE and levels from ISU:
    http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=934
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -4.2 GOE? I thought it was up to -3 or +3...these rules are confusing lol..

    the base values are:

    Triple Axel: 8.2 (wasn't it 7-something before?)
    Quad Toeloop: 9.8 (wasn't the BV always 9.8? )
    Quad Salchow: 10.3
    Quad Loop: 10.8
    Quad Flip: 11.3
    Quad Lutz: 11.8
    Quad Axel: 13.3 (lmao 4A?! for real? doubt anyone will be doing that anytime soon lol...)

    Hmmm sucks that the 4T has the lowest BV out of all the Quads...and Stephane just does the 4T. Most of the skaters who try Quads do the 4T though...some like Brian Joubert's done a 4S before,

    I know in an article before Worlds, Stephane said he's done a 4Lo in practice, but it would be too risky unless the BV was higher...wonder if he'll ever try a 4Loop in competition.
    "We believe Hanyu could win the gold because Daisuke Takahashi, the ace in Japan’s men’s figure skating, paved the way to the world for the other Japanese figure skaters."
    The Japan News, February 2014

  14. #14
    sport legend ricochet4's Avatar
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    Lasati cvadruplul Axel in pace, eu nici cvadruplu Lutz nu am vazut pe nimeni facand.

  15. #15
    Moderator mikeyy's Avatar
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    Uite aici o incercare de quad Lutz...aproape reusita: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yEvVzq_uyA
    www.fangymnastics.com

  16. #16
    sport legend ricochet4's Avatar
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    Cine altcineva putea fi decat Plushenko ? Oricum, cu cazatura am vazut si cvadruplu Axel.

  17. #17
    Moderator mikeyy's Avatar
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    Nu cred ca ai vazut quad axel cu 4 rotatii si jumatate complete! Pt ca cel care reuseste sa faca 4 rotatii si juma inseamna ca are la degetul mic toate celelalte quad-uri.
    Plushenko a reusit toate sa faca toate cele 4 rotatii..doar ca nu a reusit sa tina aterizarea
    www.fangymnastics.com

  18. #18
    sport legend ricochet4's Avatar
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    Nu e complet, dar e incercat. http://img532.imageshack.us/my.php?i...2302434ua2.flv Am mai pus linkul asta. Oricum, nu e neaparat adevarata afirmatia ca cine stapaneste Axelul, trebuie sa aiba la degetul mic celelalte. Poate exista unii care pur si simplu se indragostesc de Axel si numai asta incearca, din ambitie.

  19. #19
    :) innuendo's Avatar
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    totusi 4 A ramane inca un lucru care nu se poate face
    My only opponent is myself !

    ex-tRipLe aXeL

  20. #20
    Moderator mikeyy's Avatar
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    Am mai vazut filmuletul ala.....ii lipseste cam jumatate de rotatie.
    Axelul e cea mai grea saritura care exista......sunt persoane care fac mult mai repede cvadruple decat triplu axel. Nu cred ca vom vedea cvadruplu axel in vreo competitie prea curand..poate niciodata
    www.fangymnastics.com

  21. #21
    sport legend ricochet4's Avatar
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    eu sint convins ca vom vedea. dar cvintuplu nu. desi belu parca (om caruia din pacate, uneori ii mai zboara fluturi prin cap) sustine ca exista cvintuplu axel in codul de punctaj. cvintuplu nu se poate face (sustin eu) decat prin modificari genetice ale patinatorilor (nascuti ca in Gattaca), patine cu ceva sistem care sa avantajeze desprinderea, costum aerodinamic, etc. e ca si saritura de 300 de metri de la zbor cu schiurile. s-ar putea, dar inainte de asta, ar interveni federatia sa interzica.

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